Megan Kerrigan (00:01.309)
Hi guys, and welcome to another episode of Meg Talks. This week we have our Mindset Matters series with Annabel. It is part two, so welcome Annabel. And today we're going to be talking about how to manage disappointing results or a disappointing result for you. So Annabel's just come back from the Old Scotland, so this is quite on topic at the moment.
Annabelle (00:14.223)
Hi.
Megan Kerrigan (00:29.235)
and dancers also are heading to the Great Britain's by the time this airs. So it be, wait one, two, I can't think. Anyway, by the time this airs, either the Great Britain's is over or it's coming up. So we thought it'd be a really good time because I think everybody in their dance journey or dance life will definitely have some disappointing results. I was talking about this in a workshop at the weekend. can't.
Annabelle (00:37.87)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (00:56.211)
always be your absolute best. can't always be giving 100 % and getting 100 % out. So I think it's a really important one to chat through really. And I suppose you in your role, Annabel, speak about this quite a lot, probably day to day.
Annabelle (01:14.115)
Yeah, yeah, speak about this all the time. In fact, we're speaking about this at the weekend with the dancer I met. We had a little one-to-one session over in Scotland. And yeah, it's quite, it's something that comes up quite a lot, especially around this time of the year. Cause obviously you've got lots of major championships happening and then it's going into a rock to season. So results tend to, especially it may just seem really important to dancers.
and they really base a lot of the confidence and self-worth as a dancer off them. But also even small local fashions seem to matter more to dancers like results-wise than they do maybe earlier on in the year because it is such an intense time of the year coming up.
Megan Kerrigan (01:59.953)
Yeah, and I think dancers pin maybe goals. We obviously speak a lot about when you set your goals, having some, yes, result-based goals, but also having some performance-based goals and some goals that are focused a little less on like placements and the result, and a lot more on your actual performance and your progress personally. And I think that probably has a really big impact, doesn't it, when it comes to managing disappointment.
or understanding your own disappointment maybe a bit more.
Annabelle (02:31.011)
Yeah, exactly. Because sometimes you might dance absolutely brilliance, but the judges don't agree. Other times you might come off and go, you know what? I can do that better, but the judges love it. Like, we're not always going to agree with the judges whether that works in our favour or whether it doesn't. But there's things that you can be in control of that you can take ownership for. Like, well, last week I didn't warm up very well. So this week, one of my goals is to make sure I've nailed my warmups and my first round is really good.
Megan Kerrigan (02:36.124)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (02:54.461)
Yeah.
Annabelle (02:59.717)
And that's something that whether you place first, fifth or fifteenth, doesn't really matter. You can still take that win away with you.
Megan Kerrigan (03:07.099)
Yeah, and I think that is definitely very important. And that is something that you probably speak about in your goal setting sessions in the goal club as well, probably. We have those every month and on the day of recording this, you've got one this evening. But yeah, that is something that we kind of really advocate, isn't it? It's like that not result-based goal setting. Obviously they are important in a way to have those goals so that we strive forwards and we're pushing ourselves to be better all of the time, but...
Annabelle (03:21.444)
Yes.
Megan Kerrigan (03:36.101)
you can also do it in another way too.
Annabelle (03:39.417)
Yeah, of course, and everyone's personal goals like that will be very different. You know, there is, and I think it's very easily to look at the girls that are getting the top five or the boys that are getting the top five at the major championships and think that, you know, they've got it slightly easier than we do. You know, I do actually know a dancer who does place top five in major championships that, you know, their biggest goal this weekend was actually just getting up and dancing. And, you know, I don't think people really take into account sometimes. I know I certainly didn't as a dancer.
Megan Kerrigan (04:03.379)
Yeah.
Annabelle (04:08.665)
Just thought everyone at the top had it all sorted and ready-made and it's not. No, and it's meeting people like yourself and actually getting to know you as a person as well does help. You I wish I'd known that when I was dancing. I found it out three years too late, but you know, it is definitely worth noting as well that everyone is just human at the end of the day, regardless of where they place or how many globes they've got or how many championship wins they've got. You know, everyone is just human and.
Megan Kerrigan (04:12.022)
I can vouch for the fact that they didn't and don't.
Megan Kerrigan (04:22.525)
Yeah.
Annabelle (04:37.207)
It's not always their personal goal might be exactly the same as yours.
Megan Kerrigan (04:40.465)
Yeah. And actually before we get into sort of what we've got planned to speak about, something that happened this weekend that made me think was I was watching the results on Fest TV and they're obviously in reverse order, they? They're all Scotland. And it sort of like gave me this little flashback of like, remember you would probably think that...
Annabelle (04:55.61)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (05:02.715)
Let's say I had won the All-Scotlands the year before and maybe the World Championships, but when reverse order happened, I would still be looking at my number thinking, it might be me, it might be me, at every single point of those results being called out. Just because I had won before I was the World Champion did not mean that deep down I'm like, right, I don't need to concentrate now into the top five. I kind of didn't think about that.
Until that moment, I was like, I remember standing there thinking, is it me? Is it me? Is that my number? Is that my number? Like from the very end. And I suppose that's again, just something that I thought that's quite an interesting thing to share because dancers will think, you know, if you're up there and you're used to being on that podium, then you just wait for that to happen for you. But you're still, you're a kid at the end of the day. And I think that understanding maybe isn't there as much as it seems to be.
Annabelle (05:57.657)
Yeah, exactly.
Megan Kerrigan (05:57.757)
for those young dancers especially. So firstly, what we're gonna do is talk a little bit about like, when we were planning this, we spoke about what's our biggest, the biggest thing that jumps into our mind or our experience that jumps into our mind when we think about our own disappointing results. And I suppose mine maybe wasn't the result that was disappointing. I'll throw a spanner in the works here a little bit.
Annabelle (06:24.143)
Go on, you're gonna go into yours.
Megan Kerrigan (06:27.539)
because it was a disappointing day for me overall. And you've probably heard me speak about it before, but I had come second at the world. And I wrote this down completely wrong actually. I had come second in the world, like kind of out of the blue and didn't really know that that was gonna happen. And it gave me that drive and that self-belief that, okay, right, this is my year. I'm gonna work really hard. I'm gonna do it.
it made me believe that it was possible to win. So I worked really solid for that whole year, went to the world, had two really good rounds, was really excited to go up for my set dance and got up and I tripped very badly in the first like two bars. And as I say, interestingly, my dad the other day said that was the best he ever saw me dance that set dance. Cause I bounced back up and I had this never ending energy. It was...
Annabelle (07:22.799)
Bye.
Megan Kerrigan (07:23.321)
I was like, if only I had this energy all the time. I've danced Flanksy Davis and I could have done it six times in a row after that fall because I was like, I will make up for the fall. But anyway, I obviously felt so disappointed because I felt like my whole year I'd put into this, to this world championships and I just ruined it there in that like split second basically. I still came sixth.
which was definitely not a disappointing result, but it felt disappointing compared to like the goal and the aim and all the work that I'd put in. So that was my one that jumped into my mind. Tell yours Annabelle and then we'll sort of break them down and work through them.
Annabelle (08:07.855)
Okay, so I could have given you about 15 disappointing results or disappointing days and I'm sure my mum could give you even more than that. But yeah, the one that initially stuck out to me when we spoke about this, when we were planning the session was the year The Worlds was in London and I was from a little tiny dance school and we'd never had anyone we call at The Worlds before and...
Megan Kerrigan (08:11.571)
Yeah. I'm a bit worried.
Annabelle (08:35.909)
I tried year after year after year after year and this was definitely the best I'd ever been dancing. I was so well prepared for it. I was dancing really well, leading up to it I'd had some really good results. I was feeling pretty much like if it's gonna be any year, it's gonna be this year, like it's got to be. Unfortunately, the week of the world, I did end up getting sick and getting ill, which I ended up with vertigo. So I literally couldn't stand up without like falling over.
It was really bad. And one of my biggest things that was always in my dancing was I did loads of spins because I was good at them. Well, when you can't even stand up, you're not falling over. You can't really go on stage and spin. So I had to change all my choreography pretty much the week of the world and then wasn't allowed to practice it because I was so sick. So that was slightly annoying. But I did get up on the stage and danced really, really well. Everyone was really happy. And to still find out that they didn't recall that year and then to find out that I was one off.
Megan Kerrigan (09:12.339)
through that.
Annabelle (09:34.373)
I think it was something like two marks. It was a tiny, tiny amount that separated that. Although getting the recall, not getting the recall, sorry, was disappointing initially and getting ill was disappointing. To then find out was so close was almost bittersweet as well.
Megan Kerrigan (09:37.614)
Megan Kerrigan (09:52.103)
Yeah, you're like, is that even more disappointing or does that make you feel better? It's a hard one that.
Annabelle (09:56.995)
Yeah, and it feels different at the time than it does now, about 10 years later.
Megan Kerrigan (10:00.913)
Yeah, I can imagine. Now, I suppose we'll talk a little bit about how we handled that situation at the time. So like on that day, how did you handle sort of like how you felt? Do you think? Well, how did you feel?
Annabelle (10:18.041)
And...
Really gutted, disappointed because I was so hopeful of like if it was going to be any year it'd be this year and I felt so well prepared until the week before which again was something out of my control. You can't help it if you get sick. But I'd still given it everything I absolutely had on the stage and I still really gave myself the best chance of getting there so I did feel really disappointed. Plus wanting to do it for my teachers and being the first of my school to do it and give them that moment after all the years of hard work was something that I felt like I'd let them down as well.
Megan Kerrigan (10:30.642)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (10:50.407)
Mm-hmm.
Annabelle (10:50.511)
So was an added layer of disappointment as well. But I remember we went back to the hotel room because we stayed in the venue that year. It was a hotel as well. So we went back to the hotel room. And we didn't do a lot, actually. We took my wig off and we went for dinner and stuff like that. And I think it was kind of everyone was like, well. But still in my mind, I was still replaying everything I could have done or should have done or what could have gone different and stuff like that.
And I think my mom and my teachers were kind of like, we're used to years of not recalling. So let's just go and get some pasta.
Megan Kerrigan (11:25.021)
So they sort of just carried on, whereas in your head it was like...
Annabelle (11:28.397)
It was still playing over and over again of what could have been done differently. And I think we probably moved on too quickly rather than actually processing it before we attempted to move on. That night they were talking about, right, okay, so when we go to the All-Scotlands in a few months, when we go to the British Nationals, it was already in the past for them, whereas I was still in the moment. And then to keep up, kind of just, I think the next day was just like, right, okay, done. Whereas I didn't have the time or I didn't give myself the time to process.
Megan Kerrigan (11:32.562)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (11:44.786)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (11:48.339)
Thank
Annabelle (11:58.383)
how I was feeling.
Megan Kerrigan (11:59.751)
probably did that thinking that that was gonna help you to move forwards from it, not really realizing that maybe they needed to help you process it that little bit more.
Annabelle (12:11.117)
Yeah, I think they thought they were like, right, okay, let's pick her up and give her something else to think about and to move forward and to work towards. But yeah, I think, you know, it was done out of whatever they thought was best. But yeah, I think now looking back, definitely at the time I was like, yeah, that probably should have, should have probably taken more time there to understand how I was feeling and to deal with it rather than like impacting freshers going forwards.
Megan Kerrigan (12:15.599)
Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (12:22.353)
Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (12:39.399)
Did you speak? Did you share how you felt? Or was that kind of like you just dealt with that on your own? Yeah. Yeah.
Annabelle (12:45.637)
No, I probably didn't. In fact, I can almost guarantee that I didn't. So yeah, that was probably just me on my own. I used to do a of journaling as an older teenager. So was about 18 at this point. So I probably did lots of journaling about it when I got home. But in terms of like actually talking about it, no, I don't think I did.
Megan Kerrigan (13:02.451)
And the journaling is really good, like you say, isn't it? like having that actual voicing something and having somebody else share that moment with you, even if they don't really give any advice, just being able to say it to someone feels a bit like liberating, it, in a way? And helps you to move forwards a little bit more. But we'll talk about that a little bit more in a, I'm jumping forwards. 100%, yeah.
Annabelle (13:24.451)
Yeah, I always thought a problem shared is a problem halved.
Megan Kerrigan (13:29.501)
Thinking about mine then, I definitely, can't really remember. What I do remember is I hid. I hid from everybody. I hid behind stage. I didn't come back out from my set dance until the end of whole competition. And I was like probably in the first 10 dancers. So imagine a world of set dance competition. Like I stayed backstage behind a curtain. Like I didn't even speak to the girls backstage. I was behind a curtain, just stood there. Kind of a bit numb.
And I was trying, I just didn't wanna walk out, because I didn't want everybody to see. I knew that if I saw my family and I saw my teachers or whatever, then I wouldn't be able to control like crying and like, I think I would have just fallen into a heap on the floor. Like it was just that overwhelming feeling of like disappointment. But also like, just like that I'd thrown it all away and it felt like it was my fault.
Annabelle (14:24.183)
Yeah, and what's different about yours is that disappointment moment happened in front of a room full of people and everyone was only just watching you because you were the only one on stage, the only one to watch. Whereas with me, it was my own personal disappointment and we dealt with that ourselves. Yours was literally in front of a room full of people. No wonder you didn't want to walk back out in front of that room full of people.
Megan Kerrigan (14:30.333)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (14:33.797)
Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (14:39.527)
Yeah, that's right.
Megan Kerrigan (14:45.221)
Yeah. And do you know what? It's quite interesting because I think I still almost carry that a little bit today. I've just had a bit of a realization, like in terms of anything that goes on. Like when I first started dating Lewis, it's quite a funny example. I didn't want anybody to know because I wanted to make sure that I knew how I felt about it before other people could look.
Like, let's say we both went to the gym together, right? So we'd have been on a nice day and then we'd go to the gym and I wouldn't speak to him or look at him or, because I didn't want other people's eyes having their thoughts about it until I knew how I felt about it. And I think that actually links quite closely to that moment of like, I don't want these people to have, to be thinking about how I'm feeling. Like, I wonder, is she okay? I hope, you know, like I don't, I don't want, I didn't want that.
Annabelle (15:34.5)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (15:39.463)
And I still don't, it's quite interesting. I've never really linked those, but I feel like I just did that there. It's like therapy. So yeah, I definitely didn't ask for help or didn't, I don't know how I processed it. I kind of hid and then my friends kind of took me away and we were running around and just like distracting. And then results came out and I was gobsmacked that I came six. I thought I'd be like, so I think I thought,
Annabelle (15:44.037)
There you go.
Megan Kerrigan (16:08.147)
I genuinely thought I'd be last. So to come sixth, I was in shock. Then it was like that positive again, because there was like this roller coaster of like thinking I'm gonna be last. Then I came sixth and I was like, my gosh, I've come sixth. Which was the two years I'd come eighth, seventh, and then second. So to come sixth was still really class because it was like better than so many of other years. And I was like, whoa. So then it was like a bit up again. And then...
people almost were giving you like the pity like, you know, maybe next year, which felt a bit like, I don't know, it just all was very raw for a long time. And again, the same thing happened as like straight back to class, straight back to right next year. I definitely didn't process anything to do with that or talk about it really, or share it. So yeah.
Annabelle (16:59.525)
And that's probably why you're still noticing things as an adult now that link back to it.
Megan Kerrigan (17:04.755)
100%. Yeah, and I did an episode a couple of weeks ago about this a bit more in depth about like the telling your dancer like don't cry or whatever. I went into a bit more depth about like my journey and go into therapy and stuff like that and how actually that one moment was such a trigger that I didn't realize, not even a trigger, but it was the moment where I realized, right, you've got to process everything. You need to be, you're an adult basically.
I was 14 or 13 and it was like, right, I'm an adult now. I deal with everything on my own almost. I regulate my own emotions. And I think if I had dealt with that in a different way, and if my parents, teachers, whatever had all, if we'd all dealt with it differently, and that's why we obviously think this is really important to share, then we would have, yeah, I would have had a different kind of journey following that. So thinking about it now then as a,
Annabelle (17:39.844)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (18:04.645)
mindset coach and obviously myself, like working with so many dancers, what would, how would you coach me through that situation right now? If that happened to a dancer you were working with, what would be like the on the day dealing with it? And then like the follow up almost.
Annabelle (18:22.605)
On the day dealing with it would definitely be, do that open communication with you, your parents, your teachers, you know, and finding that support, physical support in terms of like huggers, hugs and stuff like that. But also that emotional support as well. around that, know when we went to the all islands, there was a moment with a dancer that you noticed their teacher go inside stage to console them after something very similar happened to them. and that really like stuck with you as like, that's what should have happened when I was.
Megan Kerrigan (18:46.71)
yes, I forgot.
Annabelle (18:52.933)
12. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. You were in tears. was like, my goodness, Meg's crying again. Meg's cried every day since I've been here. Like, what's going on? But it was that moment of like, many years later, seeing what maybe should have happened with you and like, that's good because people are learning maybe in the Irish dance world. But yeah, definitely doing that would be my first port of call.
Megan Kerrigan (18:54.205)
forgot about that. That really triggered me, didn't it? I was like, my god.
Megan Kerrigan (19:11.667)
you
Annabelle (19:21.957)
And then I do think it was good that you went around with your friends and had a laugh and, you know, didn't just sit and go over it and over and over it, you know, sat next to your mum or things like that. In terms of moving forward, you definitely need time to understand it and time to realize and probably lots and lots of, because you were so young, lots of talks with adults to be like, you know, and it might feel like it's your fault, but it wasn't your fault.
Megan Kerrigan (19:25.075)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (19:38.493)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (19:50.609)
Thank you.
Annabelle (19:51.541)
Let's unpick the day. Was there anything we could have done differently? if there wasn't, sometimes these things just happen. But look what the actual outcome was. You were still sixth, and that's absolutely amazing. You should be really proud of yourself. And looking back on that day with, I should be really proud, rather than looking back and being like that was a disaster. And that was disappointing, trying to find the positives in it and understanding that, yes, sometimes these things
Megan Kerrigan (20:03.666)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (20:07.879)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Annabelle (20:18.895)
do just happen, but it's how we deal with it that's more important.
Megan Kerrigan (20:21.651)
Yeah, and I do think that that definitely happened. Those conversations would have definitely happened with my parents, 100%, but maybe not enough, like you say. Sometimes hearing it once, yeah, okay, you have that conversation. Maybe it is reiterating that and that's become a few different.
Annabelle (20:38.957)
Yeah, I feel like with kids, you have to do that more than you would do with an older dancer because they'll have multiple layers of, okay, I believe you and then the next week something else will pop into their head and then they'll go back and you have to reiterate it again and reassure them again and talk. that talk and three process takes longer for younger dancers than it does for older ones. But that's just because they find it harder to understand their own emotions because of their emotional maturity and their age.
Megan Kerrigan (20:44.794)
Thank you.
Megan Kerrigan (20:55.912)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (21:00.989)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (21:07.975)
Yeah.
Annabelle (21:08.867)
So yeah, as an adult, you've just got to take a bit more time. So it might be, you think, we've had this conversation like three or four times already. We're still saying the same thing, but it's until they can understand it as much as you do.
Megan Kerrigan (21:14.749)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (21:22.439)
will you see that, do you almost see that click in them? Or how does a parent know? Or a teacher, or you, how do you know like, yeah, they've got it now, like they're good now?
Annabelle (21:35.033)
You can literally sometimes see it in front of you. Like body language will change. They'll look literally look like they've had a weight lifted off the shoulders. You and you know, they'll probably laugh more or smile more, know, fidget less with their fingers. We get quite a lot of fidgeting. Dancers are like, I'm not nervous. I'm like, right, okay. I think we definitely are. Let's talk about that. So yeah, you will probably, you'll see physical changes like that. But just generally as a parent and a teacher who spends a lot of time with dancers,
Megan Kerrigan (21:42.993)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (21:53.703)
Yeah.
Annabelle (22:04.325)
You will hear maybe the way they talk about things might change. So they'll probably be less hard on themselves or they'll look back at that day and won't just focus on that one negative moment. They'll look back on that day and go, wasn't it brilliant when X, Y or Z happened? I was really proud of my real that day rather than just focusing on the thing that went wrong. They can see it as a wider picture.
Megan Kerrigan (22:18.631)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (22:25.959)
Mm-hmm, yeah, that's really good. And I think that's a good takeaway for parents, teachers, even other dancers that are listening that maybe work with younger dancers or have younger dancers that look up to them. Like it's nice to feel like, yeah, siblings, like you say, that can support. What about your own situation then? How would you coach someone through that now?
Annabelle (22:37.529)
or siblings.
Annabelle (22:46.821)
Definitely encouraging them to speak to someone they trusted or valued. The same, as I said, for you, but as an 18-year-old would be done in a very different way than it would be done for a 12-year-old. Because you have lots of... And I remember always feeling like I was running out of time to get this goal and that there was only X amount of years of worlds left. And that's another layer for when dancers get older in comparison to when they're younger.
is that feeling of like, I'm running out of time. I've only got X amount of worlds and it feels like even more disappointing because that's another 12 months. Now you've got to wait for it. so it's about reiterating that open conversation. It's about understanding that the world's ultimately, and I realized this afterwards. It's just, it is just a fashion. I know it's a very important fashion. It's a big fashion, but okay. Say we changed the name of the all Scotland's to the world's.
Megan Kerrigan (23:25.489)
Yeah.
Annabelle (23:44.643)
that result wouldn't be any different. Someone would just be world champion instead of All Scotland champion. But ultimately most of the same kids are still there. Most, you know, we all dance the same dances as we would do at the world, all in the same shoes, to the same music, sometimes in front of the same judges. Like in fact, when you know, look at the All Scotlands, that used to be the world venue. So it would be the same stage. So it's just the name of the VESH, really. It doesn't make the world necessarily result any more important.
Megan Kerrigan (24:06.632)
Yeah.
Annabelle (24:13.647)
than the other ones throughout the year. It's just a different name of the fish. So yeah, you might not have had a great world, but you might've had a brilliant All Scotland and a brilliant Great Britain and a fantastic British nationals. It doesn't mean that this year is like a waste or your hard work. I had this conversation with a dancer who had a disappointing All Scotland results yesterday. Did he? Yesterday, And she was saying, I feel my hard work's gone to waste. And I was saying, you know, it doesn't.
Megan Kerrigan (24:15.709)
Mm-hmm.
Annabelle (24:42.607)
Cod work never goes to waste. It may not have shown itself at the All Scotland, but who's to say it won't show itself at the Ulsters or the Monsters or your London region in England. It will show itself at some point. It hasn't gone to waste. It just didn't show itself this time, but it might do it your next fesh. hasn't, all that technique work you've done, it hasn't now just disappeared because it didn't work at the All Scotland is still there and it will show at some point.
Megan Kerrigan (24:44.262)
No.
Megan Kerrigan (24:51.484)
Yes.
Megan Kerrigan (24:57.853)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (25:02.61)
address.
Megan Kerrigan (25:11.507)
That's kind of very similar to that whole like you can give 100 % and 100 % doesn't come out. it's not because it didn't come out that day, it hasn't underwaste because it didn't come out that day. It wasn't your fault. Your effort might've still been 100. Sometimes we give 100 % and 50 % of our performance comes out. That's okay. Like that's normal when it comes to any sport or any sort of performance. So.
Yeah, it's kind of similar to that, isn't it? It will show at some point, so just keep going with it and believe in yourself, trust the work that you've done, isn't it?
Annabelle (25:52.217)
Yeah, exactly. And that hard work doesn't just go, I've worked really hard for the Old Scotland and now the Old Scotland has passed, it's disappeared. yeah. That'd be awful, jeez. It's already horrendous. So yeah, it will show up. It might not show till next year's All Island because sometimes the work we do, and especially if you've got a correction like turnout or posture, can take a while. It's not something that's going to change necessarily overnight.
Megan Kerrigan (25:59.207)
And you start from scratch again. Geez, that was the case.
Megan Kerrigan (26:09.991)
Thank
Megan Kerrigan (26:16.594)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Annabelle (26:19.589)
There will be some corrections that yet we can improve in a short space of time. Others take a lot longer, but you will be getting closer and closer to getting there.
Megan Kerrigan (26:23.026)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (26:27.185)
Yeah. And again, that's where like for a lot of dancers, always, from the movement side of things, if we are working on things like that, that's where those progress photos come in. You know that you're going in the right direction. Even if your teacher hasn't seen it yet, even if it hasn't actually come through in your dancing yet, you are seeing the progress somewhere to keep you motivated to keep going with it. Because it can be disheartening sometimes, like you say, if you're working on something and then it doesn't show up at a fish.
It's, yeah, it's just having those other tools around as well that are gonna help to keep you moving forward so you can. Okay, I'm a bit disappointed with today's results, but I've still made this much progress and that is going to show up at some point. It's having that sort of like self-belief in the process that you've got going on at that time, isn't it?
Annabelle (27:16.441)
Yeah, exactly. used to, when I was practicing at home, I to break things down into like tiny, tiny little pieces. And in my head, I used to give myself the time scale of like, I know my teacher's not going to see this for another about six weeks. I'm probably not going to get that. That's better for another probably about six weeks, but that's okay. Like I didn't, you know, not expecting it at the next class. Cause that's not always going to be the way it might come sooner than the six weeks.
Megan Kerrigan (27:29.521)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Kerrigan (27:35.911)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Annabelle (27:42.873)
But it's going to take a long time, muscle memory and building up the strength to do whatever it was I was working on at the time.
Megan Kerrigan (27:49.351)
Yeah, and that realism with yourself, I think it's hard to find that as a young dancer as well, and especially more and more so in this day and age where everything's so instant for people in lots of other areas of life. I think that's why dancing is so good because it teaches dancers to not just wait for things and get them instantly. Not just wait, not just want things instantly and expect them instantly and a hand to have to wait for them. But yeah, it's like helping you to...
If you set the goal for a longer period and it comes sooner, that's better than setting it for a short period and feeling disappointed and then that motivation being lost. And that's a good point. So three action steps then. If somebody is disappointed with a result, what are three things that they can take away from this that they need to do following that to know that they're gonna start to feel a little better about it?
Annabelle (28:45.125)
Okay, three things. First thing would be to find some positives in the day. It's very easy to look back and go, well, that first was a disaster. I'm just like full stop. That's the end of it. Yeah, that's it. That day was a disaster. And there will be some best days where you think, my goodness, more bad things happen than good on that day. But there will definitely be some good things about the day. So look for them, you know, and especially if the things that you've done really well, not just things that have happened, but things you've done. So you're like, you know what, bye.
I didn't dance particularly well that day, but I prepared myself really well the night before. I was really organized and it made the morning so much easier. Like, and I didn't argue with my mum as much. Like whatever it is, find something that you've done. three things you've done really well in that day. Or you know...
Megan Kerrigan (29:21.947)
Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (29:29.363)
Like you say, it's again, that long term goal of, okay, if we did that well, I'm gonna bring that with me to the next FESH, but I'm gonna leave this thing behind. And it's like, every time you go to a FESH, it's like perfecting that routine, perfecting, working out what works for you. And that's what I say to dancers. That's why going to the smaller FESHs is really good. Because then by the time you get to your major that feels more important, you've perfected what works for you and you know exactly what to do.
And it takes a little bit more of that guesswork out of it, doesn't it?
Annabelle (30:01.221)
Yeah, and it can be a little bit of trial and error with smaller feshes, but when you've figured out why call your fesh formula, your little thing for you, your routine, then, which will look different to other people's, then that's, you just know what formula to follow regardless of whether you're in a fesh in England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, America. Like you just follow whatever works for you. So that'd be my first thing. My second thing, what I always do with dancers as well would be to, and you've just.
pointed out as well is to learn from what has just happened. So I, the biggest thing I didn't learn a whole trip of sensible, hold my hands up is I never ever, ever did a good enough warmup ever. then I would get side stage and I'd be like, don't know if I'm ready for this. And then my stamina wouldn't be good. I, but I'd never sit down and actually think about it. I'd just go to the next session, do it again. But it was because I didn't sit down and go, right, okay. What have I learned from today? What?
Megan Kerrigan (30:42.161)
Me too.
Annabelle (30:57.379)
worked well, what didn't work so well and why, and get glorious about it. And if I had learned that sooner, things definitely would have been different.
Megan Kerrigan (30:59.955)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (31:06.737)
Same, my first round was always the worst and it was all, was because I never warmed up properly.
Annabelle (31:13.049)
Yeah, and you never go back and go, that's the reason. You know what, I'll change that this week. You know, it's always just like, this again.
Megan Kerrigan (31:17.203)
Yeah, no. Yeah, literally. It's ridiculous when you stop and think about it now, isn't it? But in that time, without anybody else telling you, have you thought about this? Like, have you thought about it? might be this. Without that, hopefully we're giving people that initial thought and helping them to think about it and helping them to be a bit more critical or, yeah, to want to be a bit more, yeah, that's the word, Yeah, like.
Annabelle (31:24.195)
Yeah but no one talked about it.
Annabelle (31:42.405)
be curious. always like when you come up against adversity, like if you can't get a step in dancing, I always say to the kids like, be curious. Why can't you do it? Is there a strength issue? Is it a mobility issue? Is it a mindset? You just need to think of it in a different way issue. Do just need longer to work on it? Like get curious about what it is. Don't just know I'm rubbish at that, which is what I used to do.
Megan Kerrigan (31:56.306)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
Annabelle (32:08.293)
And then, yeah, my third thing that we've talked a lot about over the last 50 minutes or 40 minutes has been having them open, honest communication talks with whoever it is that is your trusted person, whether that be parents or whether it be siblings, older siblings or your dance teachers or me or you. Doesn't matter who it is, because even if Mum, for example, hasn't been a dancer, she will still understand the feeling of disappointment and they will be able to help. And as I say, a problem.
shared as a problem halved, it does make you feel a little bit better once you get out of your own head and actually speak about it.
Megan Kerrigan (32:42.131)
And I think finding that person that is going to give you the space to just speak. I think sometimes it's very hard, especially if parents have been dancers themselves, it's very hard to just let their kid tell you about their experience, because you are just relating it to your experience. And I'm guilty of this myself sometimes. I'm like, I know how to help you. And I haven't even finished their sentence yet.
So I don't really know, I haven't let them tell me yet. And I think that's a really big one is like, just let them speak. Usually you don't actually, I heard a podcast before and it was like, when someone starts to speak to you, ask them do they need to be helped or heard? And if they just need to be heard, they just need to voice it and then they'll feel better. You don't even need to do anything, you just need to listen. They just need an ear.
Annabelle (33:17.807)
Yeah, that's a good point.
Annabelle (33:28.141)
I've heard this, yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (33:36.829)
and then a hook maybe. Whereas some dancers want to be helped and they're gonna take that help on board, but you still need to listen first to their experience of it. Especially if you've got your own experiences that you just naturally assume that the dancer feels the same way you did in that moment. So I think that's definitely a good one.
Annabelle (33:58.137)
Yeah, definitely that helped and heard. I've heard of that before. It is really good. And it probably depends as well on the age of the dancer and also how much they've already processed themselves. Sometimes you're not ready to get to the help stage if it's still quite raw. You'll know it yourself if you come to someone, if something feels quite raw and then they try to offer you advice or help or why don't you do this? It's like,
Megan Kerrigan (34:01.715)
Hey.
Megan Kerrigan (34:22.771)
Yeah. Well, this feels like you haven't been listened to, doesn't it? It's just like, wish I'd said.
Annabelle (34:26.629)
Yeah, or that you're being blamed. Yeah, for something. So yeah, and having them and being 100 % fully honest, you need to talk to someone who is non-judgmental and someone who you can because if you're only 70 % honest, you're keeping that little 30 % still in your head and then that leads to feelings of being ashamed of the thought or how we're feeling when there's nothing to be ashamed of how you're feeling. It's your experience and everything you feel is valid.
Megan Kerrigan (34:36.755)
Bye.
Megan Kerrigan (34:46.547)
Mm-hmm.
Annabelle (34:54.703)
but you need to be able to be 100 % honest with whoever it is that you pick.
Megan Kerrigan (34:59.027)
Yeah, and that again in itself might take a little bit of practice and might take a little bit of time to work out who that person is for you. But if you don't start and if you don't try, if you don't start to try to share a little bit with someone and test the water there a little bit, then you won't get to that point where you can be 100 % honest. Because I know for me, I would have struggled definitely to share 100 % honesty with my mom, only because I know the way she would be like the...
the way I would naturally instinctively be. It's like, I wanna help you, I wanna fix this for you. Where it's like, you just need to let me process this myself, but be there to support it. And I think that's, for some personality types, that's hard. Like, you just wanna fix. And especially as a parent, I think it's quite hard, because you just wanna make it better instantly for that person. You don't wanna see them have to ride the wave of managing it and feeling it through. So yeah, it's finding that person.
Annabelle (35:42.051)
Yeah, can be.
Annabelle (35:49.05)
Yeah.
Annabelle (35:55.801)
Yeah, as a parent, it's got to be difficult because you know the pain they're in and you want to make it better because that's what you want to do as their parent. But actually sometimes letting them and it'll pay off in the future if the dancer knows how to understand their own emotions and regulate their emotions in a safe and, know, safe space and helpful way. Like as they get older, that will become easier. Whereas if...
Megan Kerrigan (35:58.705)
Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (36:16.915)
healthy.
Annabelle (36:24.473)
you've had that experience and it's not necessarily been so safe. It does, as you've said before, will impact things going forward.
Megan Kerrigan (36:30.833)
Yeah. And that's where like we try to facilitate that space, don't we, within the members club and like we are welcoming, accepting, safe space for dancers to share really how they feel. The majority of the time there is at least one other person within our members club that has felt like that, been through that, that can help you, that can support you. And sometimes even just somebody replying and be like, I felt like that before. Hope you're okay.
Like sometimes you don't even need, like I say, that's almost like a being heard thing, isn't it? And we see that within that space. And it's really, I love when I see like dancers share feeling a bit vulnerable, being vulnerable and sharing how they feel. And then other dancers, their comments underneath and our own comments, of course, but other dancers supporting them through that. And I think that's what's really special about the Members Club.
Annabelle (37:24.005)
Yeah, the dancers that have quite a lot of regulars on my Thursday mindset sessions and they are so fantastic at helping each other. They're absolutely brilliant at sharing their own experiences to help one of the other dancers who's going through something because a lot of the dancers that are on there quite regularly are lots of different ages and lots of different levels and points of their dancing journey. And it's not always the ones that have the most experience that have the helpful answers for the
Megan Kerrigan (37:29.981)
Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (37:33.969)
Yeah. Yeah.
Annabelle (37:53.433)
Although it's not always that way. Sometimes, you know, it is quite a mixture. But yeah, I do love it when I see that. They're really, really good at it, to be fair.
Megan Kerrigan (38:00.659)
think the other thing about that Thursday mindset class is people feel a little bit happier to share when it's like, they just type, don't they, in the chat? I think that gives that other element of like, right, I've got another bit of a safety. I don't have to unmute myself and talk about this in front of people. It's that little bit of, I'm sharing how I feel. It's a bit more, what's the word, like guarded in a way as well, to make people feel that.
Annabelle (38:10.809)
Yeah.
Annabelle (38:26.777)
Yeah, it's like sometimes texting someone is easier than, you know, having the conversation in person with someone, especially if you're feeling vulnerable or like you're letting your guard down. Sometimes that can help. then, you know, I think most of the dancers are still in bed in their pajamas listening to me, but it's like that nice safe space for them.
Megan Kerrigan (38:31.165)
calling. Yeah.
Megan Kerrigan (38:48.435)
Cozy feeling, yeah. And I think that's what's really special as well about that Thursday morning mindset class. Fab, what I think we've given dancers probably a little bit of an insight into ourselves, a bit more there. And also an insight, well, those three action steps to take away. Write them down, have them in the back of a journal maybe that you bring to Feshears. Have them in your notes, in your phone. So it's not...
this thing happens and then, can't really remember what Megan Annabel said on that. Yeah, come back and listen to it again, but also write them down somewhere, be proactive and prepared and then your process is there for when this moment does happen because it will. Let's face it, it happens for everybody. We don't wish it upon you, but it will happen. We're realistic.
Annabelle (39:33.829)
We are really sick and we're honest. If we expect the dancers to be honest, then we have to be honest ourselves.
Megan Kerrigan (39:41.499)
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, write those down. And of course, we're always here to answer any questions. So if you want to ask us anything or share a little bit about maybe how you're feeling currently, then please do feel free to send us a message. Anyway, you see fit. So anyway, you know how to contact us is absolutely fine. We I will pop the link for the Gold Club and the Members Club. Members Club and the Gold Club are one thing, basically. They're just two different sections within the one membership.
the members club section being where the challenges are held and the community aspect is held. And then the goal club being where our live classes are and our library is. So I'll pop the link below for that because it's just really, it's an all round space, isn't it? For movement and mindset. Like we say, movement, mindset, community are the pillars within that. And I think no matter which one you're looking for, you don't realize that the other two are vital for you too.
Annabelle (40:28.153)
Yeah, was definitely.
Megan Kerrigan (40:39.665)
And when you come into that space, it sort of highlights that. So if you come in to fix your turnout, you actually get the bonus of you building this community, this supportive safe space to share, and you get that mindset support too, which we know is exactly what all dancers need through our experiences.
Annabelle (40:56.589)
Yeah, even if they don't quite know it themselves of yet, they will do. And it's something that is always going to be needed and is always, regardless of what stage you are, you're never going to get to the point where you don't need mindset. Whether you win every championship, getting forward for the rest of your dance career, you're still going to need it.
Megan Kerrigan (40:59.731)
That's it.
Megan Kerrigan (41:16.295)
Yeah, you're gonna need the mindset, you're gonna need the movement and you're gonna need the community at all of those levels and that's why they are our three key pillars. If you have enjoyed this, please do let us know, please share your biggest takeaways and also if you've got any topics you want myself and Annabelle to talk about in these Mindset Matters episodes in this series, then please do let us know because of course you're the listener, we're doing this for you.
dancers, parents, teachers, whoever may be listening out there. So thank you very much for joining again. Thank you Annabel for your wisdom as usual, and we will see you all again on an episode very soon. Thank you.
Annabelle (41:52.463)
Thank you for having me.
Annabelle (41:58.735)
Bye.
